"An odd thought occurred to me today. I've been planning a system using 3 x 100 foot towers to offer wireless connectivity to a valley area. But I've begun to wonder whether would it be practical to use one or more stationary balloons, such as weather balloons, as my radio platform.
I would only need a minimum of gear on the actual balloon--an antenna, transceiver, and flight systems. Everything else could be handled on the ground. It would also have the positive attribute of being relatively cheap and expendable, so that in case of a lightning strike you're out a few hundred dollars, rather than a few thousand.
A 12 DBi omnidirectional antenna would be mounted directly to the balloon's payload rope. I'd attach four tether lines secured a distance apart in an X formation, so that no matter what direction the wind is blowing from, the balloon will always be in more or less the same place. Run a cable along one of the tethers, to provide power and data. With effective remote maintainance, you'd only have to bring down the balloon once in awhile, mostly to top off the helium.
I realize that this wouldn't be effective for a large area, nor as durable as a tower, but according to RadioMobile, it would cover most of the area I'm looking at. It would also be a lot cheaper than building towers--If I needed to, I could produce ten of them for the same cost as a tower. I know that there's been a lot of talk about using blimps for this sort of thing. Has anyone had success using smaller items like balloons? "
wispman:
Sound like a fun thing to try. Imagine if you could "get by" with this setup until you could hire a tower built.
A question.....I bet it would be one hundred pounds that balloon would have to hold. 4 guy wires, cat five, radio, antenna. It adds up fast. Oh, and I would use 3 guy wires. Get rid of the weight of the fourth one. If you do this, document if very well written and with digital photos. It sounds neat.
polk5:
I could see my competition now taking popshots at my tower/Baloons. Helium isnt cheap. It would cost way too much to keep this thing full. I just couldnt see this working as a viable solution.
fightingblue:
An 8 foot diameter balloon should use around 250-300 cubic feet of helium. At $0.30 per CF, that would be $90 to completely fill the balloon. Even if you had to completely fill it monthly, that's not that bad considering the cost savings.
wispman, you're right that weight is at a premium. An 8 foot balloon, with 250-300 CF of helium, would lift about 15 pounds. Balloons in that range, based on my investigations of eBay, generally weigh around 6 pounds. That would leave 9 pounds for payload, tethers, and the rest. 100 feet of Cat5 cable (assuming I used that altitude) would be very roughly around 1.5 lb, plus figure two pounds for the circuity, another pound for the casing and rope, and that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for antennas, even if you used featherweight tethers. One way around that would be to use a bigger balloon. A 12 foot balloon would provide 74 pounds of lift, minus its own weight. Of course, that would increase the expense considerably. A simpler way might be to bind 2-3 balloons of the 7-8 foot size discussed earlier together, thus producing 18-27 pounds of payload.
Part of the reason the balloon idea appeals to me is because to some degree I really want to provide WiFi. I've been plotting out a system based on Alvarion BreezeAccess hardware, but I've always harbored a desire to offer real, pervasive WiFi. Unfortunately, due to the terrain, trying to offer it from ground level would be difficult (few tall structures in town, and plenty of trees). A balloon carrying MIMO gear seemed like a relatively simple way to do it over a broad area.
robbin:
I don't think you are considering what will happen when the wind blows. The stronger the wind, the more the balloon is pushed and as it is pushed it will also come down pivoting on the tethers. Then add gusty winds, and you still have the thing bobbing all over the place no matter how many tethers.
polk5:
I had a 12' blimp at my showroom I was using for advertisment at one time. I had to recharge that thing up every night. I bet it would cost 1K a month anyway to keep that thing floating. A tower is a one time cost and will will last many years. You would have to rent the space for a tower if you did not have it but you would have to do the same for a weather balloon as well.
jober:
I did testing with a 8'x16' tethered blimp. I put an AP on the bottom with a 9db omni.
With the 150' rope it worked great. I used an old but new at the time 2meg zcomax450 AP in repeater mode. Also had a cat5 cable wire tied to the rope for power and ethernet.
I got 15 mile to a tower that had a 24db grid with a 1 watt amp.
A blimp is better then a ball because a ball will move all over the place, but the blimp would hold it's position a lot better.
I had high hopes of putting up a bigger one, at about 2500' but there was to much red tape with the FAA and not to mention the people laughing and calling me crazy. This was in the mid 90's when people also said I was a dumb ass for running power over my ethernet cable.
Yahkin:
We actually did a lot of research into this idea. We thought it would be a good idea to feed a remote subdivision, and we could put advertising on the balloon as a gimmick too.
But...
Many things to consider.
1) FAA - Tethered baloons have a lot of regulations. You must have flags every so many feet on the tethers, you must have a light on the balloon if it will remain in the air at night, and if it will fly above a certain height you will need a permit. Flags, lights, and the electronics to run them all add weight. Permits add cost.
2) Gas loss - You can spend some good money and get a balloon that will hold helium a lot better than a weather balloon. But no balloon will hold helium forever. Best case from what we could find was refills every 4-6 weeks. Autofill systems exist, but the delivery hose also adds to your weight calculation.
3) Neighbors - Have you ever seen a 12 foot balloon? The neighbors will find it humorous for about an hour, then they will be complaining to the city, state, FBI, FCC, and anyone else that will listen to em.
4) Kids - Yes, that's right. I know If my neighbor put a big balloon up next door, that they might as well have painted a big target on the side of it. I would have immediately ran down and grabbed my bb gun or .22.
5) Competition - See #4 above.
jober:
Yes, yes, all the bad points of a balloon. LOL
But, If you could get a balloon up to 2500 to 5000 feet you would have some great coverage.
Oh, and the FAA told me as long as I did not go over 150 feet I could do it with out any red tape or other paper work.
only problem is, the trees here get up to 150 tall.
cmaenginsb:
A balloon would be a great idea for a temporary internet setup. Think county fair or something like that.
I'm curious, since you only put minimal gear like the antenna and transciever on the tower how you feel that cost of damage caused by the lightening stike is going to be different?
As to a 4 point tether system, the ballon is still going to be bouncing about enough that your range would not be the same as a similiar height tower. Then you get into the fact that it would be challenging to place sectors on the balloon as well.
Most people using towers have 3 or more radios on them, including backhaul.
My question about maintainance is that you do understand that really the only maintainance done to a tower mounted radio is replacing it when it fails. So you would have to have 2 radios on the blimp, one as a "standby" or the balloon would have to come down. Of course if you wanted to replace the bad radio it would have to come down as well. Original thread location |
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